The following is extracted from the CV Q & A Forum and may be of interest to BLOG readers
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Author: Norma Maille (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)Date: 02-26-08 18:16
I know many have washers and dryers in their units. Did you have your by-laws changed and how hard was it to change these old by-laws?
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There are a number of interesting issues, and a bit of history is useful as background:
In the Original Declaration of Condominium, at Article XIII (Use and Occupancy) we find the following extracted language:
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“No laundry facilities or equipment shall be permitted in any unit, nor on the Condominium property. The Lessor under the Long-Term Lease shall have the exclusive right to install and operate coin operated laundry machines, including but not limited to washing machines, dryers, dry-cleaning machines and machines of an allied nature, and the exclusive right to offer services for off-premises dry-cleaning, laundering, pressing and tailoring, and other allied services, within Century Village, during the term of and as provided in said Lease”
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In other words; the Developer scoped the Laundry Facilities as a money making proposition and did not envision competition from private “in Unit” machines. Additionally, the individual Units are NOT plumbed properly for these installations.
Clearly in the passage of time, many Associations, if not all, have purchased these machines from WPRF and continued to operate and maintain them for Association benefit; and neither do the Associations brook said competition; and your Bylaws will so reflect.
Nonetheless, many have indeed surreptitiously or otherwise installed their own machines in individual Units. This raises all sorts of problems;
let’s have a look:
1) If enough Unit Owners install their own machines, the monetary support for the Association facilities dwindles and other Unit Owners must pick up the load.
2) The individual installations are often, not to code, raising significant plumbing issues; folks have washing machine “grey water” discharging into sinks, bathtubs, and commodes because they have failed to install the required Vertical two inch diameter drain pipe and trap. Enough of these illicit installations will in due course damage the plumbing system for the entire building.
3) Failure to Properly Heavy-Up the Power supply for the Dryer which poses risk of fire, not to mention proper venting of the dryer.
So; in addition to modification of the Bylaws, and Declaration of Condominium to accommodate these private installations; it is critical that all such installations be in accordance with current code and be installed by licensed Plumbers and Electricians. Additionally the impact on the entire building must be considered.
Dave
22 comments:
Dave, great information for all.
Un jour très merveilleux à vous !
Chris
There are MANY washers and dryers in individual condo units in the village and MANY have been there for MANY years. Very few if any cause any problems with plumbing drains. More of a problem for plumbing are the residents that pour cooking fat or grease down drains. We have seen excessive amounts of liquid soap being poured into drains.
There are also MANY portable dishwashers that drain directly to sinks. But again they are sold with that feature.
As far as venting dryers there are "ventless venting kits" that are designed for that purpose.Of more importance is "double tapping" of the 220 volt line to a breaker.
The loss of possible laundry room income is another issue and I guess each building has to handle this as they best can. Another question-if someone is handicapped- can they be denied the convenience of a washer and dryer in their unit? Can they invoke the Palm Beach Fair Housing Code or the American's with disiabilies act?
Also if the washer is on an upper floor it will overflow one day. Just one more risk.
Do people need to change by-laws or just put sthem in and say nothing
The most common thing that causes water to leak from the second floor to the first floor are toilet wax seals.Since the water goes down the second floor does not see any water. However the first floor bathroom ceiling falls down. The second thing is a leaking shower pan or tub followed by a broken toilet supply line. Way down the list is a leaking hot water tank or air conditioner. I have not personally heard of any incidents of leaking washers. I have heard about leaking dishwashers. Living in a building with multiple floors is always interesting.
Hi Larry,
Would the replacement of a leaking wax seal from the toilet be covered under the Village Mutual contract? What about all that other stuff you mentioned? Would any of that work be covered? I am wondering who the first ones to call if you are told that there is that kind of leak.
Thanks, Chris
Village Mutual like many other contracts have things that are covered and things that are not.
People call us for all kind of things and we are always pleased to advise them what is and what is not covered.I can tell you that NO ONE covers a leaking shower drain pan.
Some drain problems can be solved with a quick plunger and sometimes the entire drain has to be cleared from the outside of the building.
Village Mutual like many other contracts have things that are covered and things that are not.
People call us for all kind of things and we are always pleased to advise them what is and what is not covered.I can tell you that NO ONE covers a leaking shower drain pan.
Some drain problems can be solved with a quick plunger and sometimes the entire drain has to be cleared from the outside of the building.
Can we hear LARRY KALL'S lips smacking at the thought of selling thousands of Washer/Dryer combinations to CV Unit Owners in direct violation of Bylaws, Building Codes and Common Sense???
Larry's advice on such issues, reeks of acute CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
He should either separate himself from Village Mutual, or stop giving Self-Serving advice on matters of Hardware, Appliances and Maintenance.
This extends to his advocacy of the impending acquisition of thousands of COMCAST Cable boxes which may be required by Digital Transition of TV programming.
His dual roles, for example, with Village Mutual, the UCO Executive Board, The Cable Committee and The Transponder operation are highly suspect and should be terminated.
Where there is smoke; there may be fire!!!
LoT
Village Mutual does not sell appliances. Village Mutual does not install washers and dryers.
Whether or not people put them in their units is their decision and the decision of their Association. All I can tell you is there at LOTS of them in the village.
I took the job as Chair of Transponders because no one else asked for the job. If you would like to take all the problems that go with this non paying job be my guest.
I was asked to be the Cable Chair by two President and as long as I am asked to serve in this job I will to the best of my ability.
As far as Comcast is concerned-the residents will make any decisions relative to the digital conversion. The easy thing would be for UCO to walk away from the impending problem and let the unit owners solve the problem on their own and it will be COSTLY no matter what the outcome. Not everything you hear thus far is accurate.
There is a lot of things about this digital conversion that the LOT (whom ever that is )knows nothing about and perhaps should wait until all the details are explained and they will be to the Officers , The Executive Board and to the Delegates. The residents in the end will make the final decisions on this matter.
The easy thing for me would be to walk away from the problem and let residents some that are ill equipped on what to do , make a decision without the knowledge necessary to make an informed decision.
Hey, LoT don't attack the messenger, Larry at least gives us some facts, amd he is right, he is not selling a thing. Keep it coming Larry
Please do not be naive;
just because the operating front is "Wright-Superior" or any other Village Mutual Sub-Contracted operator; does not mean that Mr. Kall's supposed, Non-Profit Village Mutual, who sends the trucks to your Unit does not benefit.
His recent devious move of sending out Contracts as though they were legitimate bills to deceive Unit Owners into thinking they were invoices; was an act bordering on criminality;
How many of you paid and thus became an unknowing customer of the Village Mutual Empire?
Following is a copy of the Village Mutual Corporate filing:
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Detail by Entity Name
Florida Non Profit Corporation
VILLAGE MUTUAL SERVICE, INC.
Filing Information
Document Number 736852
FEI Number 591509349
Date Filed 02/21/1974
State FL
Status ACTIVE
Principal Address
110 CENTURY BLVD
WEST PALM BEACH FL 33417 US
Changed 05/07/2007
Mailing Address
P.O. BOX 222661
WEST PALM BEACH FL 33417 US
Registered Agent Name & Address
KALL, LAWRENCE
34 SOMERSET B
W PALM BEACH FL 33417 US
Name Changed: 04/04/1997
Address Changed: 04/04/1997
Officer/Director Detail
Name & Address
Title PD
KALL, LARRY
34 SOMERSET B
W PALM BEACH FL
KALL, MAXIAB
34 SOMERSET B
WEST PALM BEACH FL 33417
Title VPD
KALL, MAXINE
34 SUMERSET B
WEST PALM BEACH FL 33417
Title VPD
SILVERMAN, MYRON
9 GOLF'S EDGE C
W PALM BEACH FL
Title S
KALL, LAQORY
34 SOMERSET B
WEST PALM BEACH FL 33417
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Larry Kall, Maxine Kall, and Myron Silverman;
listed as President, Vice President and Secretary respectively of the "Altruistic Village Mutual Services" Company; don't make me laugh!
As to the "FACTS" that you claim Larry provides; they are rarely accurate, and the rhetorical questions he drops are worthless.
Mr. Kall is "CONFLICT OF INTEREST" on wheels and always looking to make a buck at Unit Owners expense!
LoT
To LOT
How come you do not want anybody to know who you are? Are you afraid of being known?
Mr. Kall,
Who I am is absolutely irrelevant; I am not pretending to be the Uber Father of all Unit
Owners while lining my pockets with their money.
STOP pontificating on things you know nothing about; UCO is not the Universal Center of Knowledge that you seem to think it is.
This Village would get along just fine without you and without your leash-holders at UCO.
By the way; did you ever settle that 100K plus legal judgment that followed you down here from New york.
Let us know if you have forgotten the details of that, I will be glad to publish the entire mess here if you like; just say the word.
LoT
Larry,
I’m amazed. You won’t permit the Board’s Discretion to reasonably accommodate the handicapped when requesting a parking space closer to their unit, which is required by Fair Housing.. And yet you seem to approve the outrageous view that handicapped residents may install washers and dryers under the support of “FAIR HOUSING”.
I disagree. As an attendee of a Fair Housing presentation, they clearly made both points: Requests for parking space changes must be considered, but ADA compliant access to the building laundry would be required to “reasonably accommodate” handicapped use of the common laundry, especially with prohibitions in our By-laws, to the contrary.
To Edeveblack
I did not say that I advocated putting washers and dryers in any unit. I only said that there were many in the village. As far as Fair Housing and ADA, they were questions not answers and you gave the proper answers for which I thank you.
It just doesn’t seem fair to accuse a person of so many horrible things and not be willing to sign your true name to what you are saying. How can a person fight back to something like that. It’s like shooting someone in the back. I appreciate all the time Larry Kall donates to the community and appreciate the knowledge he is willing to share.
Chris
Some time ago it was mentioned thata we should consider professional management of CV. This would remove the responsibility of day to day operations from UCO, even though UCO would have the final word on all decisions. The cost for this would be minimal per unit!
To Bob B
When and if we get professional management, depending how it is structured, UCO does not have the final word now and I doubt very much that there will be a UCO and the final word then.
Rosa J. Flum
Hey guys, I think I opened a can of worms when i posted my question on washers and dryers!!! I still didn't get and answer. Did anyone change their by-laws to facilitate w/d or did eveyone do it on the QT. ????
Hi Norma,
Sorry, I surely did wax perhaps excessively on this issue.
Clearly, some Unit Owners in CV have installed W/D in their Units; exactly who is unknown by me.
If you like, I can set up a pole in the Side Bar, but that would only reach the readers of the BLOG.
As to those Associations who have changed their Bylaws to enable W/D installation; that actually is researchable with some work. One could search the Clerk of Court Site for all 309 Associations. To be effective there would also need to be an Ammendment to the Declaration of Condominium.
If you really choose to do this research, consider using the "Type of Document" filter option to zero in on Amendments.
My GUESS is that no-one has changed their Bylaws on this matter and that most of the installations are not Permitted nor are they to Code!
Dave
Dave,
You are most likely right about many washers and dryers in the village where the by laws were not changed.It is also probable that many of the building laundry rooms in the two story buildings were not installed to codes and some may have not even bothered to get a permit.
Unfortunately people have done a lot of things inside their units that do not meet codes. Some of these might include putting a shower in a one half bath, double tapping electrical breakers, breaking through walls and countless other items.
I am sure that there are building associations that had repairs and modifications made by unlicensed and uninsured people.
I know that you have a great concern if Palm Beach County goes to 40 year recertification and perhaps you could give us some more details on how this might work.
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