WHOSE COMPUTERS ARE THEY? – WHO SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE THEM?
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Fresh from her position as Administrator of the CV Q & A, (that worked out well) Carole has re-emerged As The Supreme El-Presidente of the Century Village Computer Club (CVCC).
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Why do I say such a thing, you may ask! Fair question; let’s look at the following Email apparently written by CVCC President Carole:
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From: Olddiva@aol.com
To: Olddiva@aol.com
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Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:58 AM
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Subject: cvcc an important request for your help................k
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Dear Members, We need your help! As many of you are aware, WPRF has notified us that they intend to open our computer classroom to the public.
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Last year, they donated 3 computers to our room for the use of our students, and now they have informed us that they want us to make 3 computers available in our room for public use.
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The room would be open to the public at all times, except during the time we have classes or lectures scheduled.
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A huge number of us are strongly opposed to this idea, as it was our members money that has paid for the computers, and other equipment that is in the classroom, and we are concerned about what condition we would find our teaching computers in.
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This room would not be 'policed' by anyone while it is open to all those who wish to use it. We have difficulty seeing how all the equipment would be kept safe from theft or use by people who wander into the room.
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As you know, the room isn't even open to those of us who are members of the club, except during the time that we may be attending a class or lecture. Here's how you can help:
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1) We have a petition, stating that we do not agree with WPRF's decision, available for your signature at the General Membership Meetings. If you agree that we should not have to share our classroom, please take a minute of your time to sign it.
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2) If you would like to write a letter or an email of protest to my attention, please do so. My email address is dancelatin@msn.com.
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3) We also strongly encourage you to attend the Operations Committee Meeting to be held on Tuesday, December 30 at 10:00am, to express your thoughts directly to the officers of UCO and to Anita Cruz, Vice President of WPRF. The more people who attend, the greater chance we have of 'winning the battle'.
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Please try your best to attend this meeting. The future of our club may depend on it. Thanks for listening, and thanks for anything you can do to help with this dilemma.
Best regards,
Carole
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Ok! Let’s look at this Email:
Your BLOGMEISTER has long desired to join the CVCC; as I have 50 years of hands on experience with computer based analysis, Operations and Security; both Mainframes and PC’s. I think that I might have something to contribute, and of course working with those of like background in the CVCC, much to learn!!
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Why haven’t I done so? Because of nonsense like this Email above;
I have been told by some who are in the CVCC that it is run like a prison camp; endless pointless rules; I am told that it is run by a small clique who enjoy telling people what to do and how to do it, does this sound familiar, as related to the “Tile People, “Plumbers”, and where to have a “High School Reunion” tripe of the CV Q & A??
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Can you imagine; not even the members of the Club can use the computers unless they do so in the context of an official class format.
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The real issue however is the admission in the Email that “last year, WPRF donated 3 computers”
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Ok, what does that mean; does that mean that Mark Levy bought these 3 computers out of pocket; or does it really mean that WPRF bought those computers using Unit Owner Money? This is a critical question, because if those machines were purchased with Unit Owner money, then every computer literate Unit Owner in CV should be allowed to use those machines.
Furthermore, I suspect that over the years, since the inception of the CVCC , Unit Owner money may have been used to purchase more than just the three computers mentioned in the email.
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I have asked Anita Cruz about this and she has agreed to advise me as to how many, if any, fall into this category.
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Anita is busy and this will require research into archived records, so this research will be as time and priorities allow, which is perfectly reasonable.
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As to the issue mentioned in the Email “This room would not be 'policed'!
Such language, So typical of an authoritarian mind set!
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The idea that our Unit Owners need to be “Policed”, simply ludicrous; how about guided, assisted, instructed, aided…Etc.
Such an approach might lead to more dues paying members and perhaps a relaxation of President Carole's autocratic grip on the CVCC. Believe it or not there are undoubtedly some Non-CVCC Unit Owners who might like to join if the Club were less authoritarian - I certainly would!
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As to attending the Operations Committee meeting on Tuesday 30 December; good idea, although non Committee members may not be allow to speak during actual debate, (Oh yes folks – Open Meetings are dead in certain committees) You may get to talk before the vote is taken, if indeed the issue comes to a vote.
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Your money may have paid for some of those machines, if so, we must insist on our fair and proportional access to them.
Dave Israel
PS:
The following is extracted from the CVCC Web Site, History page:
REF:
http://cvcc.centuryvillagewpb.org/history.htm
“John Ford whose tenure as President marked a major step up in the impact the club was making at Century Village. John's vision and unbounded energy sparked a rapid expansion of club activities. It was he who pressed Village Management for the financial aid that sparked an explosive increase in our ability to keep up with the demand for increased services and equipment”
So, I ask again; Who paid for the CVCC Computers – Who should have access to them?
Dave
Sunday, December 28, 2008
WHOSE COMPUTERS ARE THEY? - AND WHO SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THEM?
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35 comments:
David:
What's fair is fair.
I agree that if WPRF's
money was used for the
purchase of 3 computers
I feel that any unit owner
should be free to use one.
Dave this could be a difficult one?
until all the facts are in and for us to know the crieterior of rules and regulations? I will have to presume Anita Cruz(a) wants to have this location where we could go on line etc, instead of the one I see in the ticket office? Maybe Carol(b)
has the right for the CVCC to protect the class equipment,etc.
I am under the impression they teach Residents on the usage which I should apply because of my lack of knowledge of the internet.
Now if ths (a) and (b) is the intent then a comprimise has to be worked out thru procedures to please all parties? Carol may be right to defend CVCC and Anita may be right to have a central location for Computers?
No fighting ,no yada yada, discuss
seek a resolution that all can agree? Can this come before the
Delegates> stay tune never a dull moment!!! I write this with very little knowning of facts and looking at this as a complete outsider on this issue. Every (2) cents helps? If I am wrong someone will let me know.
I went to the CVCC web site after my print they the club members give
WPRF exstrodinary amounts of money
That was and is a wake up call,WOW
Dave help how do these club activities function and work?
I for one is very ignorant of these issues, WOW again!!!!!!!!!!!!
The room where the CVCC holds classes was referred to three times in this email as "Our (computer) classroom". This room, as every publicly accessible room in the clubhouse, is for the use and benefit of all CV residents. That being said, once the property ownership issue has been researched and the facts determined, the details of an equitable policy for access and usage can be established.
It does seem a dumb waste of space to always have that large room locked up. All summer it is used for 2 hours per month for one or two people, even those classes are often cancelled. WPRF tells us we are short of space. A meeting would fit in the back of that room just fine.
cvcc member
Why a rush to the divisive 'win the battle' petition. Giacomo is right, where is the compromise, where is the concern for all villagers? Where is the thoughtfulness, the meet in the middle, we need to know Anita's position.
Surely there are ways to lock machines as in any office environment., even give them hoods.
Has the pc in the CH office been mistreated? No, and it is much appreciated, a great feature of CV.
Computer anti-theft. Are these installed in the computer room? A Kensington Security Slot (also called a K-Slot or Kensington lock) is part of an anti-theft system. It is a small, metal-reinforced hole found on almost all small or portable computers and electronics equipment, particularly on expensive ones, such as laptops, computer monitors, desktop computers, gaming consoles, and video projectors. It is used for attaching a lock-and-cable apparatus, in particular those from Kensington. Locks are generally secured in place with a key or some mechanical PIN device and attached through a rubberised metal cable. The end of the cable has a small loop that allows the cable to be looped around a permanent object, such as a heavy table or other similar equipment, thus securing it in place.
I have been a member of the Computer club for a few years. I have never seen you, Dave at any of the meetings so how can you comment on what goes on. It is a very well run club with officers who really care about its' members and give of their time to offer classes to all members. You seem to have a very large axe to grind with Carole. My understanding is that WPRF gave the club three computers to replace computers that were destroyed by the Hurricane a few years ago. The rest of the equipment in the room has been paid for by the members of the club.
I know for a fact that the computer in the office that is used by villagers was stripped of it's programs and supplied with programs by the then user. At a meeting I suggested to Anita that she take back, Indian giver, the three computers and put them in the hall where anyone with a knowledge of computers or not can use them and break them. My second suggestion was that WPRF put a metal folding large gate across the room near the entry and the three computers can be put there and anyone can use them. She had thought it would be good if some of the computer club members would donate their time to be in the room when people were using the computers. I told her it wouldbe a good idea for her to pay someone to sit there.
Dave, can you go into the theater anytime you want to watch a movie using the equipment in the room? You as well as all of use paid for that. Can I just walk into any of the club rooms whenever I want and use the equipment? No. The room upstairs is a classroom.
The club's membership is over 500 members. Something has to be going right to have the membership it has. Your comments are wholly uncalled for.
I am not on the board but do enjoy the club.
Carole is just trying to protect the club and it's equipment from being destroyed or stolen. I was willing to go to the operations meeting for the club and so were a lot of other members.
You are just stirring the pot because you have an axe to grind with Carole for whatever reason. I am very disappointed in your actions.
Memo to Grace: Get a life!
This comment section I predict will
supercede the infamous speedbump debacle, but all must please be
and engage in a non-hostile mode in our words to each other. The original post to me was very strong worded?I can print this and also not be judgemental I read what others have. Hopefully consider Randalls, elaineb, and I
comments? read and evaluate all the contributers input on this matter.
David, Carole might have been wrong in her english, but many people have laearned many things from the teachers(volunteers of the computer club) and also our lectures are open to all!..I am a big admire of you, but in this situation I think you best wait to see what develops. Let's get all the facts.
Grace, I do not know where you are getting your info on the office computer (sounds like CVCC rumors and invention) but here is some history from the installation.
Gift of MS Office from Cenrec - Many thanks to Dee Albert, Anita Cruz, and their assistants.
Email from Dee Albert:
“We are very aware the trial versions come on all new machines and resided on that one. We DO NOT remove them since they are not active. However, so it will be helpful to the residents, I will see that there is a licensed
version put on the computer for their use and at no charge. Anyone that knows computers and computer software, knows that this licensed version of Office costs around $450.00, so it is not a package we readily hand out.
Thank you again, and if we can help in any way... just email and let me know.
Dee Albert
Director, IT Services
Cenrec (Cenville Recreation Inc)”
Hi All,
Well, this one has clearly stirred the pot a bit!
Please understand that no one knows better than I, the acute need of hard facts on this issue; the problem is, no one in a position to know, is talking.
Someone knows of course, but the hard information on how many of the CVCC computers were paid for by Unit Owner money via WPRF is not as yet forthcoming.
That is why the main post is titled as a question.
This post was BLOGGED because of the upcoming meeting of the Operations Committee; where I hope some hard facts will be presented, not just a wave of Turf Mongering.
Please, if you KNOW the facts; please post them here for all to see.
Dave Israel
There is no reason for the new computers to be tied to the bureaucratic computer club and its rules. There is other space that is available such as one of the two side rooms in the card room that are rarely used by the card players. Why have an unnecessary argument when there is an alternative?
Hi All,
The following is extracted from the CVCC Web Site, History page:
REF:
http://cvcc.centuryvillagewpb.org/history.htm
“John Ford whose tenure as President marked a major step up in the impact the club was making at Century Village. John's vision and unbounded energy sparked a rapid expansion of club activities. It was he who pressed Village Management for the financial aid that sparked an explosive increase in our ability to keep up with the demand for increased services and equipment”
So, I ask again; Who paid for the CVCC Computers – Who should have access to them?
Dave
Hi All,
A Nony Mouse
Dec 29, 2008 6:36:00 PM,
Interesting Idea; a Village INTERNET Cafe.
There are some real issues of Space, Money and Equipment maintenance; but a User friendly approach without all the CVCC drama is a novel thought.
Dave
Who paid for the locked CVCC room, whose square feet is it – Who should have reasonable access to it? Who rents the Clubhouse?
Dave, you say you have wanted to join the club for a long time? What was stopping you? Carole has been President for less than 2 years, and the club has been in existence for over 12 years. Rather than believe what you have heard from others, as you state in your post, why didn't you go find out for yourself? The club's meetings are open to anyone who would like to sit in to see what the club is all about, and it's always been that way. I know, because I've done so. Seems to me that you haven't had anything new to criticize Carole for, and that bothering you,is really bothering you, so now you've invented a new complaint, when you haven't even a clue as to what you're talking about.
Hi Anony Mouse
Dec 30, 2008 1:07:00 AM,
There should be no doubt in your mind that I firmly believe that Carole destroyed the CV Q & A because of the ridiculous rules and draconian enforcement process that she implimented under her Administration of the channel.
Of course, some might say that "she was just following GL orders" This is a long discredited philosophy.
So, in all honesty, what makes anyone think that she will not in due course destroy the Computer Club.
You say I do not know what I am talking about! OK, please answer the following questions for us all:
1) Whose money paid for the computers in the CVCC room? No circuitous response, simply honest disclosure.
2) Is it true that not even Club members can use those machines except during classes, as it states in Carole's Email
3) Why would our unit owners have to be "Policed", rather than "helped" or "assisted".
Please enlighten me if "I do not know what I am talking about"!
Why did I not join long ago?
Fair question; as you are well aware there were other Authoritarians in charge who also relished in giving other people orders and enforcing senseless rules.
My concern is for Unit Owner rights and Freedom of Expression in a Legally run CV;
Please do not be concerned about my indignation and state of mind concerning any individual; simply tell us who paid for all those machines, and we will proceed from there.
If it turns out that I am wrong in my assumptions, trust me I shall say my Mea Culpa and move on down the line.
Dave
Hi All,
It turns out that The Carole Email call to arms:
"3) We also strongly encourage you to attend the Operations Committee Meeting to be held on Tuesday, December 30 at 10:00am, to express your thoughts directly to the officers of UCO and to Anita Cruz, Vice President of WPRF. The more people who attend, the greater chance we have of 'winning the battle'."
Was just so much bluff and bluster.
There was no organized showing by the CVCC at todays meeting of the Operations Committee In fact a member of the CVCC told me that the Club was "told" not to attend.
Apparently an agreement, in the dark, was made with WPRF.
Thus far we the Unit Owners have been told nothing, as the Issue was not even discussed at the Operations Committee meeting.
As is so often the case here in CV; The Unit Owner is left in the dark, the key questions unanswered!
Dave
Dave will any info be told at the delegates meeting that was talked at the operations meeting. Besides the committee's resolute to evaluate what is on the agenda now and priorities upcoming which is a good thing, the monies to the botton line etc. what stood with me was one word by GL pres. of UCO
and the word resinated to my ears.
" ASSUMED "
Also a more agressive communication between both of these organnizations there was a percieved misstep?
Hi Giacomo
Dec 30, 2008 6:42:00 PM,
Apparently you were present at todays Operations Committee meeting.
I heard things there today that were very worrisome, revealing potentially dangerous financial issues and deep mis-communications between UCO and WPRF.
I sincerely hope that UCO President Loewenstein devotes extended time at the upcoming Delegate Assembly to explain in detail the issues involved, as regards delinquencies, accounting mispreceptions and shortfalls between WPRF and UCO; and the impact on the UCO budget for 2009.
I believe that these matters should be made fully transparent to Unit Owners, but I am doubtful that the issues are appropriate for the BLOG;
I will take guidance on this point from others also present at the meeting.
Sufficient to say at this point that this situation highlights yet again the dangers of operating, with "our" money, in the dark!
Dave Israel
Grace a CVCC member could you explain to all, the writing's of Sandy Friendenson CVCC BOARDMEMBER.
on the CVCC web,is she conveying
misleading statments of payments??
to WPRF? I can comprehend what is being printed but in reality should not be? I would like to print further but would like to see an explanation????????????????
things like this keep me up past my bedtime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUONA SERA ,
Dave that is why I limited my wording I also would like the Officers to address this to the delegates,I truly thought our treasure Doroity was doing her dodiligence in matters today that is what I like to hear same for several others, on our hehalf!!!!!
Now BUONA SERA and GOOD NIGHT!!!!!
Giacomo, if you don't understand what Sandy is writing on the CVCC site why not ask Sandy. I cannot speak for Sandy. I am just a club member who enjoys the club and all it has to offer.
Sandy could you convey the payments
to WPRF to be misinterpritation of actual Dollars? Grace I apologise for even to have asked that of you,YES only SANDY can do it,or maybe ANONYMOUS
December 30,2008 1:07:00AM by his print has knowledge and imput.
As I stated before I at times had also to say I am not smarter than a fifth grader, but street smarts I graduated" CUM LADE "
Hi Dave:
What's the record for
comments on the Blog?
Hi Nutmegger
Dec 31, 2008 2:47:00 PM,
The most comments for any main Post was on the very first Post in December 2007.
Check it out in the Side Bar BLOG Archive section; 46 Comments.
Dave
The entire clubhouse is now wired for the use of computers. Anyone with a laptop can sit anywhere in the clubhouse as well as outside at the pool and use their laptop. Why should they have access to computers that are easily broken and expensive to repair? Why after all these years has the question arose about the computer room>
Probably because many
unit owners at CV cannot
afford to go out and buy
a laptop. Many are
living on a fixed income.
Many here as of now (1) have no computers in their units (2)don't have any knowledge of this technolegy of the century and possibly getting by the door of CVCC can at least feel and try to learn, I am still intimidated by this process beyond a few basics I could still learn much more.Could be the best thing to happen for all they learn first basics then go out to buy join your club learn more etc.etc. Your membership increases and our residents now have the power to communicate to anyone ,anywhere this still bongles the mind, if it can be done with this spirit in mind
if not find another location and hope we have acess to the computers for those who could use them not break them?
Why now computer room ?, because WPRF had a request into CVCC ? And by the response it became to me this is my room , yes the club must have it's rules and regulation that is not the issue
it is a VILLAGE one that came to be, I wouldn't want to go into any current workshops without following the rules of order, it was the tone of the respose that set the fuse that cause this , basicilly what carole tried to covey she has the President is !00%
correct to maintain the decorum of the club,secure the equipment and all aspects? It was the writings that did it, a very little tack an little proffesionalism, here no matter we operate as equal, wow can you believe that, the lesson when you try to push, you get pushed back,Now my final thought on this issue isn't there a place in that building to bring this so all sides are equally satisfied?????
LIBRARY ROOM? oh oh here we go again, ping pong room ?, WPRF, UCO
evaluate make the call. WE really don't wish to have a cogressional hearing on this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have not seen any blogs from John Ford, the past president. I have known John Ford for many years. He is honest and has the knowledge of a computer and its programs. He also is aware of the problems that arise for the benefit of a few. Let's hear more from John Ford. He's my selection for president of the CVCC and UCO.
Every living person in CV pays to WPRF for all the recreation activities. I am not in the computer club or any other club and I pay $100/month to WPRF. I get no special privileges. Why should the computer club get special privileges?
AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No one in the village, including the members of the computer club, knows who paid for the computers. Are you folks for real ?????
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